Unboxable Podcast - Soulful Connections: Finding Purpose with Lisa McLean
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Unbox Podcast because there has never been a better time to step into your big girl's shoes and realize that you are made for more, more joy, more alignment with your life purpose and more connection. I'm Elena Turley, and I'm inviting you to join me in exploring how we can connect within ourselves and with those in our circles more deeply so we can make big change while still showing up as the best mothers.
Women and humans possible. Let's begin.
Lisa: Hello Alena.
Alena: We just had a hilarious technical like conversation about sound and it's, you know, a little bit of a buzzkill, but we made it and it's worth it. It's always worth it when you have these things. We've taken some time to get together and it's very nice to see you. [00:01:00] My lovely long-term friend, and I'm really glad we've carved out the time to do this.
So welcome.
Lisa: Yeah, me too. Me too. And yeah, we've obviously had a few conversations together, but not on the podcast. And I've listened to every episode, so I'm very excited to now be your guest. And I was like, this morning thinking, oh gosh, where is this conversation gonna go? Because you never know when we have a chat.
So true, so true. I feel like we've had a extremely decades long conversation that I'm, so, I love being in conversation with you, Lisa, so I'm very pleased you're here. And thank you for being a long-term listener and supporter of this podcast. I'd like to ask you, first of all, the question I always like to start with, which you all know very well.
Mm-hmm. Who are you, where are you, and what do you love to do?
Yeah. And I love that you ask everyone this 'cause it's always so interesting everyone's answers. So I did think about this. Of course. No, [00:02:00] very simply, where am I? I'm on the Gold Coast. I'm on Southern Gold Coast of Queensland in Australia.
Which, which I love living here, but it's a fairly new place for me to live. As you know, I'm a Sydney cider originally, so that's where I am at the moment. Who am I? I'm Lisa and I'm middle, middle-aged woman. Just loving life and I'm really grateful for the life I have. Simply put I'm also a, a wife.
I've been married for 23 years, known my husband for 30 years. I'm a mother. Of two young adults 19 and tomorrow Luke turns 22. So that's exciting. I am a daughter. I am not a sister, but I am also a friend and I have many beautiful women friends who I feel like are sisters to me, so very grateful for that.
I've also been a marketing consultant for over 20 years to small businesses, mainly in the health and wellness industry. And these days, I suppose my Instagram profile says Wellbeing warrior, holistic counselor and mindfulness [00:03:00] mentor. And that's what I love to be these days. Well,
Alena: I love all that and I mean, I, I dunno where we go from here, but I will just say there's some very obvious connections between what we do.
I also do help. Ethical businesses is the way I put it. You have sort of more of a wellness focus. I have more of a kind of ethical, small business focus also with marketing and also work very much in the therapeutic space. So it's lovely to me that all those years ago we actually went to school together in high school, and although we weren't in the same exact friendship group, we were in the widely same friendship group.
And I remember even back then feeling a real resonance with you and never being quite sure. Mm. What that was about, because I didn't know you that well. You know, I didn't go to your house much or like, we weren't super close, but we would chat whenever we could. Yeah. And I remember always being kind of drawn to you and drawn to.
To know more about you. And so then it was such a really beautiful [00:04:00] happenstance to end up living around the corner from you about six years ago and to sort of be able to rekindle and actually finally have that deeper conversation with you. And since then, we've been collaborators in many different ways and I'm, I.
It's really beautiful to be in collaboration with you in so many ways, and I would love for you to share a little bit about how you came to call yourself Wellness Warrior, mindfulness mentor and holistic counselor, because I think when we met you. We're not quite sure where that would lead you. I think you maybe were feeling a pull to something outside of marketing, but when we met, maybe that wasn't there.
So talk to me about that.
Lisa: Yes, yes. Well, there's a lot, lot to that story. I haven't told you what I love to do, but it's all connected. Really. Oh, go, go. Sorry I cut you off. I'm terrible. I get excited. No, I know. But there is so much to talk about around that sort of wellbeing and and what I do now and yes, you knew me before.
I was sort [00:05:00] of, i, I, you know, was thinking that's what, that's who I am and and that's what I wanna be doing. But yes I'd love to do well you know, I. Love to spend time with family and friends. I love to be in nature, particularly by the ocean putting the feet in the sand. One of my things I always say is, being by the sea brings me back to me.
You know, I love to like you connect with other women, support women and share women with women. You know about health and wellbeing basically, hence the Wellbeing Warrior. I love to travel and I love to read and you know, like you, I know I'm a lover of sort of learning and all my life.
So this sort of ties into your question there. All my life I have been interested in learning about. Health and wellness and how to look after ourselves so that we can live long, healthy and active lives. And where does that come from? [00:06:00] Is I suppose as being a sick child and yeah, I was an asthmatic as a child and I was.
Very sick. I was hospitalized many times. So I think somehow when I now look back and I now call myself a wellbeing warrior, is that I've just always been focused on how to be better with my asthma, but also how to do what, what things are out there to help me live my best life in regards to my health.
So I've always been connected to what's going on in my body. And, and what can I do for myself to to be healthier? And also just to listen into, you know, we have different stages in our lives, obviously as we are, you know, younger in our twenties, and then becoming, you know, a wife, a mother work life, you know, things happen in our lives, but how can we stay on top of our health because, you know, and I think because of being an unhealthy child, that really has been a priority for me in my life, is.
Just my health. And I [00:07:00] think also, I suppose and now I can, you know, you can look back at your life and and, and see where, you know why these things become important in your life. And not only as being asthmatic child, but I suppose the holistic side of things and wellbeing and wellness is because my parents have introduced me to looking beyond what the medical.
World says, and really looking into what you're eating, what you're doing with your body, what you're putting on your body and how yeah, you know, the connections, the mind, body, connections and holistic health has just sort of been, I think, in me all my life. And how
Alena: amazing. And a follow up question, yes, I did not, actually did not.
For some reason, either know or recall that you had been hospitalized as a child repeatedly? Yes. And yes. In hearing that, what I wanna know is, of course that leads you to a different perspective on health. I understand that. What, what else did it leave you with in terms [00:08:00] of characteristics of you as a person?
What else, other gifts do you think that experience gave you?
Lisa: Well, I've been, I've been really sort of delving into this recently, so interesting that you ask, you know, because I'd say that probably the last four or five years I've been on a sort of what I'd call sort of real healing journey in really trying to listen into what's going on for me and what, you know, what my life has taught me.
Alena: Yeah.
Lisa: And and really going back to and look studying to be a holistic counselor, which as you know, is only a recent thing. You know, I've learned a lot about sort of inner child work and intergenerational trauma. Trauma in itself, stress. So if I go back to being a sick child, I think it taught me a lot.
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Lisa: And you know, at the same time, I think it held me back a lot. So, you know, I think being really just sort of put into a survival mode as a [00:10:00] child. Yeah. To just breathe actually does something to your nervous system, actually does something to your body as a child in which you are in survival mode.
And I think that as I know now, what I've learned now is that stress in the body and unregulated nervous system being unwell can really have sort of effects that can last for a long time. And so I. I think, you know, so I was, so as a child, yes. I was actually born in London and I was hospitalized before I was even 18 months old, quite sick.
Oh, that's okay. Blue in the face, not breathing. So by the time I was about 10, I think I was hospitalized four or five times. And back then in asthmatic you were put in a tent with oxygen. Mm-hmm. You were given a lot of cortis cortisone. That my mother hated because I, my face blew up and I was a different child.
So I think [00:11:00] experiencing that when you're young is a lot of stress on the body. I.
Alena: Yeah, I would call that, you know, trauma. Yeah,
Lisa: yeah. Yeah. And the more we learn about trauma and you know all about it at May, and the more that I'm realizing that there was a few traumatic things in my life early on, and yes, in one way we can look at our lives and say, Hey, we had, we had we parents and we didn't.
Experience a huge traumatic thing in our lives, which is my case. But I had some things going on that certainly has affected me. And it's certainly something that I've been unpacking recently because I think, yeah, it's
Alena: fascinating, isn't it, that we don't always identify and you know, it, it's only important to identify it if it's helpful.
We, we don't always need to identify trauma as trauma. I certainly didn't identify a lot of different things that were occurring in my childhood. Until many, many, many years later when I learned how to recognize them. I think at the time, their experiences and we integrate those experiences or don't [00:12:00] integrate those experiences, suppress them often as much as we can or need to in order to keep living.
You know, that's really natural. And I think what I'm curious about is have you ever understood much about the causes? For hospitalization at 18 months, for example, or the causes of your early life asthma. Have you ever thought much about that?
Lisa: Very much so recently.
Alena: I would love to hear more about that
Lisa: and I must say that obviously I don't know if all the listeners, I'm thinking most of the listeners would've heard of Gabo Mate and I went to see him live.
'cause aren't we lucky he came to Australia just the last couple of weeks?
Alena: Yeah.
Lisa: And gosh, you know, reading, and I've read his books before, so none of it was new to me, what he was saying, but it was a real reminder to me. I really do believe that. I, I was born into possibly a stressful environment.
Alena: Hmm.
Lisa: And I think, I really think that stress from [00:13:00] my parents and the environment I was in probably was a factor for me.
Alena: Almost certainly, and the more I learn about, yeah. First of all, the more I learn about the connection between what a mother is experiencing, excuse me. Mm-hmm. Whilst she's bearing a baby, you know?
So a, a woman I. Holds a huge amount of grief in the womb. From all of the work and, and research and somatic inquiry that I've done over the years, I've learned that certain parts of the body holds certain types of emotion and in a woman, mm-hmm. You know, the uterus holds grief. And so if you are born, worn through a, a vessel filled with grief.
It kind of makes sense that there might be some effects of that. Also, a baby experiences without words, without any kind of framework for understanding everything that a mother is experiencing [00:14:00] whilst they're in the womb. So if the mother is experiencing stress, which of course happens all the time, and I don't just mean, oh, you know.
Day-to-day stress, I mean a little bit more than that. Most likely. You know, a woman can withstand a lot and still be okay, but if, but if a woman is experiencing beyond the normal stress, then that does carry over into effects in the womb and fascinatingly, the work I've been doing lately with. The root cause therapy, we actually do address subconscious causes of stress, including what happens in the womb before birth.
And that is a fascinating area of work because so many of us obviously are not even conscious of that. So I love that you mentioned that. I love that we now have ways to talk about that. G Mate talks about trauma in early life, pre-verbal, you know, but he was a baby. Yes. When he experienced a huge amount of trauma, he talks widely on that.
Yes. So talk to me some more about that. What's that done for you, [00:15:00] knowing this now?
Lisa: Do you know? I, I think it, and, and again, sort of the, the, the course I did around holistic counseling delves into a bit this. And and therefore I've been then delving further and on my own into it. And yeah, I, I think that.
I really appreciate now, I suppose with the awareness that I'm bringing to my life and understanding myself better and my sort of inner knowing. And then looking back, I now really, I suppose I. I look and looking at the bigger picture in regards to my parents, you know?
Alena: Yes. I
Lisa: suppose it's a time in our lives.
We're the same age that your parents say that, and then we, that we look and go, okay, that's really interesting. What was going on for them? You know, I've been asking my parents questions that I'd never have asked before. That really is so important for us to know. Really looking into history, not just of our parents, but our parents', parents that intergenerational.
And I'm really [00:16:00] sort of seeing, I suppose I'm now becoming very aware. Yes. And, and, and on that note, I just think, and I, I really like the, well, my taste says this. It's not about. Any blame. It's not about, you know, we all do the best, but life is life. And understanding how these things can affect us over the generations.
And also really, I suppose, and you know. That inner knowing now also thinking about me as a parent and you know, how did I parent my children? Because I'm learning a lot more now than I knew 20 years ago. Yeah. And, and seeing what's going on for them even, and understanding, you know, how I played a role in that without blaming myself.
You know, I'm total compassion and acceptance, but I think it's really important to be aware.
Alena: Yeah, absolutely. And we're all just doing the best with what we have, but there are still moments where we become aware of, you know. Maybe what we've played a part in. Mm-hmm. And I think that taking responsibility for our part in things is really key and awareness is [00:17:00] transformative.
Awareness is a transformative force, and we are able to actually change our perspective on the past. Talk to, like you said. Inner child work is largely about, you know, us reparenting the inner child that didn't get what they needed, or bringing new awareness to a past situation. And one of the beautiful things about doing the work that we do is that we allow people to step into a space where it is actually possible to, as a more indigenous perspective, is heal seven generations before and seven generations ahead.
And the beauty of it is it doesn't matter when you come to this work. It doesn't matter whether you come to it at the beginning or the end of your parenting journey or in the middle or wherever, that you can always start from where you're at. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of grace in that and a lot of compassion in that, you know?
But I'm, I think I'd really love to return just for a second to, yes. What you mentioned [00:18:00] about making. Making peace with your past and, and understanding your past in a different way. How does that, how does that, why is that important?
Lisa: I think it just allows us to I, I instantly just thought of as you were just talking about post-traumatic growth and. Although it's not necessarily all our past is, is trauma, but I think almost that concept that when we can look back and really see what was going on we can, I. I feel more comfortable actually in who we are and maybe even let go of past things that have happened in the past that maybe have held us back.
You know? 'cause subconsciously brains are wired as children, you know, because we are trying to survival and, and sometimes, as you said, we don't need to always, consider everything in the past. But if those things were, then when you look at sort of your life now and go, [00:19:00] okay, maybe what's holding me back?
What's, you know, why am I not finding my passion or why do I feel like I'm stuck or I dunno what, where I wanna be or who I wanna be that's possibly looking backwards and, and sort of understanding where that stuckness comes from and really sort of just opening up to, acceptance and also what emotions, you know, have you maybe kept inside that you need to work through and release in order to move forward in life?
Alena: Yeah. I think the more of that work I do, the more I recognize that it actually is more important to find ways to release. Energies that are blocked in the body mm-hmm. Than it is to make sense of them. And that's kind of something that's only become super clear to me in the last couple of years that through martial arts as well, you know, [00:20:00] we are constantly working out how to move energy through the body.
And so that actually is, I know the way that I feel before and after a martial arts class. Mm. And part of that is because I'm being present to whatever is going on in the body and moving it. It's not. Actually a conscious process of attributing, where did that emotion get trapped from? Or like it's actually irrelevant.
Yes. Now I know there's a place, I know there's a place for counseling psychology. I've done all those things. I need all those things. To this day, there is a place, 'cause the mind needs to be able to make sense of this too. Mm-hmm. But we need both. Something I've only just worked out a little while ago.
Yeah. You know that, that we need both the ability to release through the body and through the unconscious and subconscious parts of ourselves, especially when it's pre-verbal, our experience, because like your experience and like mine where there was trauma before we could speak or in the womb, then [00:21:00] we, and you know, call it trauma or call it.
Whatever else. Stress, you can call it whatever word you want, but something that meant we had to we couldn't cope in the current system that we were in, right? So we had to go into that survival state, that cortisol state, you know, even as a baby in the womb. And so if that happens, we don't actually have.
A language for that necessarily because we didn't have language when it happened. And subconscious parts of ourselves are actually not language based. They are preverbal anyway. Like sub subconscious brain is not words. It's images and dreams and feelings and you know.
Lisa: Yeah.
Alena: And I just, I love that you are.
Exploring that. Like I love that we could talk on this level about that because it's
Lisa: such
Alena: a game changer.
Lisa: Yes, it is. It is. And I'd love to, you know, you've said a few times awareness, awareness, but this is my big one at the moment, is like [00:22:00] just the more be we become aware. And I suppose that, that, that feeds the, the awareness side of things, feeds into my, for me, meditation. So yes, I, I, you know, meditation was, has just been a game changer for me in so many ways. But I think that the real big thing, you know, meditation brings and then understanding what mindfulness is brings awareness. And I just think having that awareness about what's going on for you and in your own body and then, then brings awareness to, to your life right now and what's going on around you and in your relationships and everything is a huge one.
And it's something too. So, you know, as you said, having this conversation is just so special because I abs the body, you know, and. Holistic counseling. So this is, you know, as you know, this is what I've just studied. I think it's a really interesting one because you're right to talk therapy. Okay. So, as you said, it, it is [00:23:00] important, right?
It's really important to be able to absolutely talk to people about things. But holistic counseling, which is why I just, I just was drawn to it, you know? Yeah. My background in, I've always looked at the body as a whole. Is not just about talk therapy. And you know, I know with you, with somatics, it is actually understanding that the mind and body are one That's right.
And that our mental health is not, you know, is, is there's so many factors that affect our mental health. Yeah. And it's, it's physical and it's, you know, emotional and there, there, there's just so many. Bits that you need to sort of really be aware of that can affect your mental health. And so with holistic counseling, it looks at everything and there's a, a lot big part of it is meditation or just understanding mindfulness.
Look, you don't have to sit, meditate. Not everyone loves it. It's all also, whether it's breath work, whether it's somatics, whether it's actually feeling into what's [00:24:00] going on in the body through all of those. Yeah. I feel like mindfulness
Alena: is such an unfortunate term because it's actually about, and same with meditation.
I just wanna do a shout out right now. Yes. To all the people who I see in my private practice who say, I can't meditate, I don't do that, I can't do that. Meditation is not a completely quiet mind, so I, I just wanna say sitting in stillness, so sitting still. Mm-hmm. Can be meditation, letting the mind run without attaching to any of those thoughts is meditation.
Yeah. Going for a walk in nature can be meditation. Being focused on something for more than three seconds. I. Can be meditation. It's really personal. Mm-hmm. Martial arts, we do, you know, tai chi style movements. We call it something else, but it's the same thing really. And that is dynamic meditation, moving meditation.
There's so many forms of meditation that do not involve trying to [00:25:00] sit without your mind doing anything. The mind is there to think. It will always think. And the other thing I wanna say is, you know, talking about mental health and physical health. Health is health. It is not mental, physical, spiritual, it is health.
Overall. We are one thing. Yeah. Talking about the mind and the body, like they're two separate things is, yeah, no, it's not helpful and it's not true. Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Yeah. So true. Okay. Ran, go ahead. And it's interesting. No, no, no. But I absolutely agree with everything and you know, I know that through my, sort of even so for rather than me, you know, talking about meditation, listening about mindfulness, but how, however, a lot of people go, oh, mindfulness, what is that?
People are scared of those
Alena: words. Oh,
Lisa: they're scared. But you know, here's, here's the thing. What, and you're right, meditation, it is not like people go, I can't not think. Yeah, of course. You can't not think like they're always gonna have thoughts running through your mind. That's right. But it's actually.
It's actually just training yourself to [00:26:00] actually sit in the moment, present moment, and let go of all those things
Alena: and have an observation space and let them And just observe. Yeah. And create a space between you and your thoughts. Like, 'cause you are not, your thoughts and your thoughts are not always correct.
Yes. And it's important to know, there's a part of you, an essence, a soul, a beingness that transcends your brain and transcends your thinking. And, you know, they're, they're different.
Lisa: Yeah, and I'll just tell you a little story around, you know, and it could be, which is why I sort of go, I wanna be a mindfulness mentor 'cause I just wanna share how important it is.
But you know, for me, so for meditation, I, I I got, I did a meditation course in my twenties with my husband. And it's funny because we then didn't meditate for a long time. We're like, how did we learn at such a young age? And then we really, so did I
Alena: actually,
Lisa: yeah. So it was sort of a thing. I don't know, but I'm like, oh gosh, wow.
But, you know, so I've done lots of type, different types of meditation and, and not [00:27:00] necessarily meditation courses I've just taken on myself. But here's what happened to me though, when my kids were teenagers. I, I, I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue. Totally. Yeah.
Alena: Horrible,
Lisa: overloaded. Cortisol stress early menopause.
So all of that going on. And then parenting family life, right? We are busy, right? We're busy, we're all busy in our own ways. But so here's the thing. I used to jump on board to mindful in May, you may have heard of it. Elise BeYou, she's sort of a bit of a mentor for me. Like amazing. I just thought it was a wonderful thing to sort of encourage me to, meditate more regularly. And I did it for a number of years where I literally did it twice and then didn't do it for the rest of the month. I was like, how can I not focus here? So what I realized though, is when I suddenly hit this sort of rock bottom in many ways. I just went and actually it was Covid hit as well.
Mm. So on top of everything else, COVID, you know, lockdowns and things hit, hit us all. I said to [00:28:00] myself, you know, I just need to stop. And hap by chance, mindful of May, was starting and I went, you know what? I'm gonna actually do this. I'm gonna do it every day. Amazing. And not only that, she has amazing, interviews she does with incredible sort of mindfulness and meditation teachers around the world and just so inspiring. So I had a bit more time, I suppose, being covid. Yeah. But I also knew that if I didn't actually do something for myself yes. I'm just gonna get sicker. You know, something had to make me pause.
So here's the thing I just want to share is meditation. Stopped me, it made me pause and it also then allowed me to delve a bit more into understanding what mindfulness was. Yes. Becoming more aware of what was going on in my body. And I was always looking for answers everywhere. 'cause I love to learn, you know, books and podcasts and everyone has answers.
And I was like, you know what? I just actually need to stop. And yeah, once I stopped and learned how to just sit with myself
Alena: Yeah.
Lisa: And give me the space. Yeah. [00:29:00] And clear the head to a point. Just be calm in myself. Yeah, the answers are in me. You know, the answers are in all of us. But we just don't give ourselves the, the, the time and the space to actually listen into what's going on for us and through Yeah.
They're just waiting for us
Alena: to turn towards them. Find out,
Lisa: yeah. Inner knowing. And so meditation did that for me, but yes, mindfulness. I understand. You know, and when we are busy, how can we even stop for five, 10 minutes? But as you said, it's so many, it's. It's just actually that nurturing, that self-care, that nurturing ourselves, that giving us space to actually listen into ourselves, that's just a game changer.
And, you know, yeah, that just for me, just changed my, it gave me clarity about what was going on in my life. It gave me an awareness and it gave me, real sort of gratitude too, and appreciation for, you know, you know what? Our minds often go into this negative thinking 'cause that's just [00:30:00] how our minds are.
And it just allowed me to really bring feed, you know, bring the positivity. I. Positivity is a funny word, but just feel into what was good because it wasn't all challenging. It wasn't all bad things that were happening in my life. And once you feel into the goodness and the you feel into the gratitude and you in nature, and you give yourself this calm time, just everything changes around you.
Alena: And I think Joanne love our
Lisa: birthright. Yeah. Oh. So, you know, that really was a, a, a moment for me where I went, wow, this is really quite powerful. You know, and I just feel like more women, everyone in the world needs to understand how powerful it is because we live in such, in our modern society, we live in such busy lives and we run around and it's just not healthy for us.
And it's just that stress and that overwhelm. Is making us all sick and, and it has to, it's very addictive as well.
Alena: You know, cortisol is addictive. Yeah. Stress hormones are addictive. [00:31:00] And, you know, it's also, we are lacking some frameworks. The, the culture that we have has forgotten some of the frameworks that we used to have to allow us pauses and spaces and stillness to turn towards the joy and the love and all those things that are already there within us.
And, you know, it is in our nature to have all of those elements. Already there. And I think possibly some cultures in the past and in the present are a little better at allowing space and time for those things. And you know, our culture, our western modern culture is a little broken in that way. And I, I find myself saying this.
All the time. But we also have got, I think, ways of bringing back some of those practices. And maybe that's a little bit why you and I are so passionate about this because we've had a little taste of those practices. We've had a little taste of what it feels like to acknowledge. The emotional burdens we are carrying, whether they be ancestral wounds, whether they be [00:32:00] wounds from this lifetime in the, in the womb or all the woo words that I'm talking about.
But like, you know, sometimes we, I think have. Really, we have a, a calling, I guess, to find our way through these things in ourselves and then share how we did that with others. And I feel like you are starting to answer that call. I think when, maybe when we started talking more deeply, which was like I say about six years ago, probably around the time when you were going through a lot of the things you just talked about.
And I was also coming into a, a new era in a sense of starting to do this work, you know, and starting to. Walk hand in hand with other women feeling these, these calls, you know, to be more true to ourselves and, and find different practices that we can bring into this culture, you know, that work in this culture, but allow us to be more deeply connected.
And I wanna know what have been the benefits? I mean, I know you've been. Doing work [00:33:00] with me over the years in the membership that I run. Tiny little beautiful group of women who come together to do what we're talking about, you know? But you've done lots of other things too, and I'd love you to talk a little bit about now what are the changes that you've noticed?
You've gone from being in that state of adrenal fatigue, in that state of dealing with trauma in your present family, in your past family, you know, all these things. What's happened now?
Lisa: I just wanna say why you're saying that. I mean, I'm so appreciative for all the wisdom that you've shared with me and thank you. And I love that I've been part of the community and that we've reconnected because it is sharing the wisdom that we've been able to grow and, and discover. You know more about ourselves.
And so I, I really wanna acknowledge the part you've played in my journey and, you know, it's a journey. Thank you. And it's such a journey. All our lives are a journey, and we've all got our own individual journeys to take. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. It's been so [00:34:00] special. But, you know, I, I, I think, you know, I, I call my journey, you know, and my, which is.
What my, you know, Instagram handle is and thing. This calm life project. Yeah. And it's
Alena: fascinating. It's a great, so what, what, what has it
Lisa: brought me? I'll just tell you, say you calm and I know we can't always be calm, but Yeah. Calm life project and for me, so what has it brought me? I just think it has, I've learned a lot about myself, but I've been, I've learned how to regulate my emotions better.
I've learned how to listen better to my family and listen to myself. I've learned how to say no and not be a people pleaser because it wasn't serving me all the time.
Alena: Mm.
Lisa: I've learned to really feel into my heart, my gut. Our mind, gut, heart is one my [00:35:00] intuition. And you know, I feel a lot happier in who I am and where I, what I wanna do the rest of my life.
Feel very grateful for the life I have for the people in my life. I have my connections with, I think my relationships with. My husband has changed, but I mean, more importantly, because that was some of our challenges was the relationship with our children changed. How oh, just, I think, you know, just an acceptance that we're all in our own journeys, including our children, and of course we, we are there to love them and support them. But they're all on different journeys too, and each child's different. And you know, understanding not to almost put all As, as parents, we sort of, we wanna help, we want to fix things, we want our kids to be happy, we want things to be almost perf we've got this perfectionism [00:36:00] thing, you know going on.
And I think it's, that's to do with what sort of. Society is all about these days that we fe we feed into stuff. And I think we, I've learned to really just really be ex be sort of aware of. So the, so the, with the kids, it's a connection and it's understanding to really what's listening to. What's going on for them and understanding how to support them so they can find their way and they can learn to regulate their emotions and learn to deal with, be resilient in life and deal with whatever challenges come their way.
Alena: So you are showing up differently as a parent, as a yes wife. As a yes. It's about the way you're showing up.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Alena: I've gotta say, I'm very, very embarrassed to say that I only recently made the really strong connection [00:37:00] between my parenting and my children's behavior and my own shame. You know, I realized that one of the things playing into my young son's difficulty going to school at times, he's eight and we had this kind of episode of like school can't the other day.
And it was so hard and I realized through self-observation again, I'm pretty sure I've realized this before, but I realized the depth of it again, of how much, when he's going through that, how much shame comes up for me. Around being a sensitive person in our society about, around being vulnerable, around being a person who cares around being imperfect.
All this stuff, you know, I gave, gave, gave up perfection a long time ago out there, but I've recently realized how much shame I have in here that I'm still holding myself accountable to, and that's. I mean, I've known this [00:38:00] before, but I've just reached this other layer of it and I was like, holy heck, that's still there.
You know, like these things, they don't go away. Yeah. We just become better equipped to respond differently to them when they arise. And I, and I'd love to note when you, you're talking, I don't, I gotta own up to something. I don't use that word regulate anymore. I don't use the word regulating emotions because.
For me personally, and this is very personal and I don't mind anyone else using it, I'm encouraging you to use it, but I don't, and the reason is that regulating my nervous system is something I no longer want to do because for me, I make that mean suppression. Yeah, I make that mean. Mm-hmm. What I'd rather think about, for me, what works for me is to it's okay to not face something in the moment because you have to, because life.
It's okay for me not to be dealing with my shame while my boy's struggling to get to school. [00:39:00] That's something I can deal with later, like a, you know, a day later, a week later, whenever I get the chance. Right? That's totally fine. I can just bookmark it. But trying to regulate it actually makes me crazy.
Like I, I actually, if I'm not able to regulate something in, and it's probably just semantics, you know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I've actually stopped using that word because I found myself getting stuck in loops with it. Like, I can't regulate, I can't bring myself back to balance. You don't have to.
It's okay to suppress and kick the can down the road if that's what you need to do in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's what regulation means, you know? But it's been a really interesting change for me actually.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd love to know what it means for you and actually what does it mean you?
Well, I don't actually use the word a lot. It's used a lot. It's useful. Yeah, it's useful. And again, I was just thinking when you're saying that I'm, I come back to awareness and actually I've been using that word a lot with my daughter now, 19 and. I think maybe that's more it, right? Like as you said, [00:40:00] that just come back into yourself.
What's going on right now? Yes, and you're right. You don't necessarily need to. I think so. And so it's almost not regulating and yeah, we need to feel all the emotions and we need to move through whatever we are feeling, but there might, as you said that at the time, whatever's going on, yeah. Might not be the time to do it.
So you need to work that. Yeah. Life demands are sometimes to, yeah,
Alena: to change the timing or to find a dedicated space where we do that. Yeah, like you do with meditation. Yeah. Or like you would with a therapist. Or a counselor. Yeah. Like that's what that is as well. Right? That's okay. Now I can, now I can actually just sort through these things I've bookmarked during the week that I know that I really need to become aware of and you know, maybe clear and that sort of thing.
But yeah, I mean, what does regulating emotions mean to you? Like in the day you said that you regulate emotions better. Gimme an example. I.
Lisa: Yeah, so I think, so what I'm maybe more saying is that I know that I held, [00:41:00] I know that almost as a survival mechanism
Alena: as
Lisa: a child, I held a lot in.
Alena: Yeah.
Lisa: And I, I just remember worrying a lot as a child.
I remember talking in my head. About things I want to say to people or what I wanted to say, and I never said them. I was held so, so relatable, I suppose. I felt like I was probably reg, I didn't get taught how to express emotions, right. All the time. Yeah. So I kept things in and bottling all that up. I think then I wasn't very good at communicating sometimes when I felt frustrated or fearful or angry, you know, and te talks about healthy anger and how important that is.
So I didn't, I wasn't good at healthy anger and I, and I was the ones, there's different, you know, some people have. That anger where they just lash out. Yeah. And others just hold it in and then there's that. Yeah, because it's not safe to in between, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, so [00:42:00] my thing would be hold it in.
So I suppose for me, understanding better about the importance of feeling into all the emotions and then working through and understanding them is my. Thing on regulating, I suppose, and not also therefore Yeah. And what to do with them going from Naugh to a hundred. Yeah. At, at a moment in time that you then, when you are, 'cause as we know the brain, so understanding also how the brain works and that it's not a good time to be so that unregulated emotion when something's going on.
Whether it's the morning when you're rushing your children or when you're teenagers. Talks back at you in a certain way and you want you know, it's like, no, I need to regulate
Alena: yes. This emotion right
Lisa: now in order to have, 'cause you know, I'm not gonna say the right things or do the right things and they're not either Yes.
At that time. So I suppose that's how I feel sort of regulating emotions is yes. But that actually comes from that awareness of what's going on.
Alena: And I love that you found that way to do that. You [00:43:00] know, you found a way to show up differently for your family by not always bringing your stuff to the table, you know?
And that's a really powerful thing to be able to be present. You mentioned listening better, saying no without guilt, feeling into heart, gut, mind, and intuition, feeling happier and feeling grateful. So those feelings are amazing. What does that look like in your life? What happens when you feel happier and you feel grateful?
What are the results of that in your life? I mean, you moved, that was one thing. You moved to a place where you had a nicer house and a bigger beach. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a pretty great result.
Lisa: Yeah. And look, we were, we were, so when that all happened interesting timing that we. Had a lot going on and then I went through this sort of, I suppose, a bit of a journey of healing or under, you know, so Yes.
So then changes, yeah, change, I suppose you step, you sort of, I know change is hard for everyone in many ways, whatever that change is. But, you know, we'd been thinking for a long time about moving and things were stopping [00:44:00] us, I suppose for me, and obviously that was a, a joint. Decision between my husband and I.
Yeah, sure. But for me, I was like, actually, you know, you know, change is good and I need change. And I, I, you know, I was just, I suppose that that's it. I was willing to sort of just really feel into what feels right for me and, and trusting I. That that was the right path, right. Self trust. And I'm bring up now because we, we talked about it often is just sort of being able to just listen to myself and then slowly understand or, or just notice, I've noticed more things like, okay, what's going on for me?
What feels right, right now to do? And this was even in regards to sort of parenting and dealing with some challenges. Around our, our, our daughter and, and school and I just felt more confident. I,
Alena: yeah, I was gonna say that, that's what I noticed. Yeah.
Lisa: Bit more confidence in myself and my own decisions and knowing that this is the right thing for, for me and my family and without, [00:45:00] and then if it's
Alena: not the right thing, that that's okay too.
You know, like realizing I think you had this huge clarity and you that the blocks were removed. It's not that add things were added like the blocks. To your confidence? Yes. Was removed. Yes. The blocks to your Yes, absolutely. Validating your own thoughts and feelings. You know, the fear you would've had about making that big decision left or at least became less of a player in the decision.
It's not like the fear goes away. Fear is natural and anxiety is natural. Yes. But they weren't the biggest players in your choice making. You know? And that enables you to make stronger, bolder, bigger choices that. Come from a place of happiness, gratitude, and you know, same in your marriage. You know, you're able to be more connected with your children, with your husband, with your friends, because the other things are not there.
It's not because you've added connection or added confidence or added closeness. They were always there. No, it's that you've allowed no certain elements [00:46:00] of your inhibition to release, to go, to leave the picture as major players in your decision making, and I think that's something that often gets missed.
Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. And I was able to step, you know, this is for us also. It was a new chapter in our life. So you know, when suddenly you don't have children at school or at home anymore. Yeah. It's a new chapter, but it's also, you know, that's sort of scary. And thinking, well, what's next? And how do you adjust to life differently?
You know, suddenly you're still a mother, you are still parenting in it, but in a different way, and you're suddenly reconnecting possibly with your husband because you were al, you know, you had so much going on and now there's less going on, but there's different things going on. And I suppose, what has it bought for me, I suppose, you know, and as you said.
I was doing something for 20 odd years work-wise, and I was mothering and, and and, and, you know. Running the family home, which is such an [00:47:00] important role to have. At the same time, I was like, yeah, but I didn't have that passion in I think I had passion in my belly, but I wasn't doing anything with it, you know?
Yeah. Where, where am I going next? And so I think being able to work through and what, what's come out of it is I, I know what I want to. Do and who I wanna be in life and how I wanna show up and, and, and, yeah. I'm also very, I'm also very happy with now, like I'm not needing more. Yes. I just really want to, I.
Be authentic in who I am and the life I lead, and and share as much, you know, appreciate that. At our age, you know, we have wisdom and we have knowledge that we can share with others and, and you're fully aligned, important, you know, you're bringing this, for me,
Alena: that's, it's so important. That's service element, right?
Yeah. I wanna be in service Yeah. Of this greater Yeah. Thing. This, this fascinating thing called wisdom or, you [00:48:00] know, whatever it is. These, these kind of. I don't know, like a consciousness or a knowledge that is out there that we can now tap into, you know, through our experience and through our training and all of those things.
Yeah, and I, I really wanna give you some credit for what I've observed in you, because I've noticed you become. Someone who not only trusts themselves, but applies action. You know, like you applied diligence and persistence and patience in your process to becoming a holistic counselor, and that takes a lot of sitting in uncertainty and discomfort.
It takes a lot of practical. Day-to-day actions like meditating every day, you know, doing hard things and moving states and making bold choices with your family to leave your kids in a different place while you guys moved away. You know, like those big choices. And they, they take a lot of courage and like you really practiced that diligence, patience, perseverance in, in your actions.
It wasn't all about the [00:49:00] feelings that came in, it was also about you taking action. And so that. Is kind of a magical thing. I mean, you took action by joining me in, in the work that I do as well, which I've always been so grateful for. And there's those actions, you know, all of those actions based on your trust, on your heart, on your intuition, they play out.
They play out and make you more authentic and make you more able to show up as all of yourself, you know? And that like, okay, I am fully alive now. Like I have vitality, I have peace. I have those things in a fluid state. Of course, changing all the time. Yes, but like essentially, you know,
Lisa: yes. More peace,
Alena: more vitality, more fully alive.
Moving in that general direction is a big shift. But it comes with sitting with the mystery and the uncertainty of those bold decisions.
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, you've done that.
Alena: It's been amazing to watch, to be honest.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Oh, lovely. And and you know, as you said, there's so much, you know, I, I also [00:50:00] think, and that's sort of it speaks to this is, you know.
I've been, I've learned so much already through my life, through my reading and learning, but, and this is a big one with my counseling for, for other women, is you can know a lot, but unless you take action, unless you actually make the time in your life to move into these things, there's, you are not, there's no change.
Right. Only and having lived experience. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and being okay with as you said, you know it may not be the right decision, but it being okay with that, but also it, it may be, and you know, just, yeah, just taking, but taking daily actions back to sort of, you know. Just little things that you can add into your daily life, that over time Yeah, massive can create huge, massive change.
Massive. But you've just gotta take that step and say, you know, I worked for a few women last year as part of my counseling training and I [00:51:00] just love supporting them. And you know, these mothers who just so overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah. And the minute that I sat with them and said. You're taking time for yourself right now, or you know, congratulations, you know?
Yeah. How are you going? The emotions, because so many of us just don't give ourselves. That space, that time, that nurturing that we really need. Yeah. And we, if we don't do that for ourselves, we can't show up for our family and our friends in the way we need to. How can we support, you know, that was a big discovery for me.
If I didn't do this for myself, I couldn't show up as a mother. I needed to be for my children who were being challenged in, in any way. Right.
Alena: There's a divine right timing element there too. You know, I say divine right timing, I just throw away that line. But actually what I mean is there is a time that is right for things and a time that isn't, you know?
And yeah, sometimes we know we want to take time for ourselves, but we can't, you know? And that happens and I get messages from people, clients, you know, I really want to book in a session. I just don't have [00:52:00] time. And I think to myself. You make time for what you need. You know, if you don't make the time for what you need, life will force you to like that.
That's the way it works. Mm-hmm. Your body will shut down, you know? Yeah. And I say that all the time and, and that's maybe your path, you know, like. Let's hope you can prevent that from happening and get to it before that. But often we don't come to things until something happens in life that forces us to you and I have both experienced that, yes, we've experienced life happening and bringing us to our knees.
Yes. And that is sometimes the only path that is sometimes the only way through. And that is when you will be desperate enough in pain, enough, you know, struggling enough to reach out and go, well, I have to make time for this because otherwise I'm gonna fall apart. Or otherwise X, Y, Z, you know, otherwise I'm really sick.
Yeah. And so I think that there is an element of. There are times that we have to do this stuff and there are times that we can't, we don't need it. Mm. Other things are more important and that's okay. You know, like I [00:53:00] trust that journey for each person, that pathway for each person. We are the only ones that know when we are ready to accept help and accept a new way and make time for help from other women or whatever it is.
Yes. You know, and that's a big one. And I think, you know, people often. They like, feel guilty that they haven't been able to do the self-care, but it's like sometimes you just can't, let's like, life is not working that way for you. When you have a young baby, you're 24 7, you know, when you have a, a new relationship, a new business, whatever, it's 24 7.
And that's okay. Yep. You know? Yep. And trusting that natural cycle, which we all have to come and go to circle in and out of depth and understanding and development and growth. It's natural. You know, that cycle's around, thank goodness. 'cause otherwise we wouldn't have this conversation. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. And that, and you're right, and I do believe at the time, and you know, you look back and you say, you know, that was the, the biggest set.
That's back to sort of the, that the concept of post-traumatic growth is, oh [00:54:00] my goodness, I hit rock bottom. And that was the biggest teacher for me. Yeah, but you, you're right. You know, there's not always time, but I think, I think as long as mothers. No matter sort of, there's no time for things. It's give, give yourself self-compassion, kindness.
That's a big one for me that I've had to learn is actually that's okay. Like you say, that's okay that I can't do these things now, but don't beat yourself up about it. Yeah. You know, really just sit in what's going on for you right now and, and be in that without letting it overwhelm you. Yeah, so just the love and like, oh, there's the guilt, the passion, there's the shame.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could let go of those things. It's not easy, and particularly if for as women, it's not easy to
Alena: to do. Yeah. So it's a real balancing act, isn't it? Well, I'm conscious of your time, my darling friend. Okay. It's been so delightful to do a bit of a deep dive together. I always love these conversations.
What a conversation. Yeah.
Lisa: No. We've managed to
Alena: record it. Yay. Thanks. [00:55:00] And I just wanted to ask, so if people are feeling a bit of a draw to what you're talking about here, the holistic counseling? Yes. Yes. Where can they find you?
Lisa: Yes. So as I mentioned, calm Life Project. I am, I, I do love Instagram.
I've always been on Instagram, so you can find me there. Calm Life Project. I do have a Facebook page as well. And my, my, my website is actually Lisa J. McLean. I'll give you all the links. And that's where I'm sharing what I'm doing at the moment. I'm offering online. Holistic counseling, but I'm also looking at creating some mini workshops around mindfulness and some meditations.
And yeah, I've got a lot of, a lot of ideas because it's sort of early days for me, but I'm just so excited to be to be, you know, be able to be here to, to work with people when they're ready to really sort of you know, work through stuff and, and, you know. Work through life. 'cause life is a journey, so, mm-hmm.
Yeah. So come and join me on my Calm Life project. It's a journey. It's never ending
Alena: and I'm so excited for you and I [00:56:00] just, I know that this work will just continue to develop for you and I can't wait to see, you know, how that evolves and all of the goodness that I have no doubt you will do for your clients.
Thank you 'cause you have so much to bring to it. So thank you for spending time with me today, today as you have to
Lisa: evolve. So it's, yeah, it's lovely. It's so fun to, to to enjoy, you know, experience it together. My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank
Alena: you my friend. You we'll talk again
Lisa: soon. I'm sure. We certainly
Alena: will.
And you know, we can always do this every year if we want. Sounds good. It's always fun to chat with like-minded women about these deep things. Absolutely. I really enjoyed our chat. Thank you, Lisa. I would
Lisa: love that. Me too. Thank you.
This has [00:57:00] been a production made with love, and I will continue to offer the best possible resources to assist you in staying connected and reconnecting if you've lost connection to your deeper purpose and your deeper meaning, so that you can go out and make the big change that I know that you are called to do.
If you know another woman who might enjoy this. Please share it with her. Leave a review, get in touch with me on socials or inside the Soma community through the website in the show notes. I really love connecting with women on this journey. It's seriously what I am here to do, and I absolutely love bringing these conversations to you.
So anything you can do to help me spread the word, really helps it reach more women who need this special magic. Thank you for being here. I'll see you soon.
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